Article 16611 of rec.music.indian.misc:
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From: sm0e@Lehigh.EDU (SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED)
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.misc
Subject: Re: Idle talk (was Re: Interesting details for Lata solos)
Date: 25 Aug 1994 04:11:07 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University
Lines: 175
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <33h5kr$gjf@Fidoii.CC.Lehigh.EDU>
References: <33dq64$2g0@lace.Colorado.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: wh457c.cc.lehigh.edu

In article <33dq64$2g0@lace.Colorado.EDU>, parrikar@spot.Colorado.EDU (Rajan
Purshottam Parrikar) writes:

>Dear Anonymous, may I thank you for a most wonderful exegesis. It is
>very rare to come across someone so well-informed in these matters.

I agree that that was a highly informative post. I hope that such
knowledgeable RMIMers, who for some reason choose to remain "read-only",
would come forward and post on the net. It sure would help in overcoming
the famine which has struck RMIM of late. Also, I'd like to thank Rajan
for bringing back some life to the music-starved RMIM.

>> Madan Mohan did most of his work with two prime lyricists - Rajinder Krishan
>> and Raja Mehdi Ali Khan.  Majrooh has a handful of songs with him (BAAGHI,
>> AKELI MAT JAIYO, DASTAK, AAKHIRI DAO and some others), Kaifi Aazmi wrote
>> songs
>
>Kaifi worked with him in "Naunihal" (Rafi's Tumhari zulf ke saaye me
>shyam etc etc).

Naunihal also had the haunting Rafi song "Meri aawaaz suno....."


>Wasn't Haqeeqat (or was it Hanste Zakham?) a Madan
>Mohan-Kaifi combine too?

Both Haqueequat and Hanste Zaqm were MM/Kaifi combos. In fact this team
was quite prolific and had movies such as Maharaja (Tumse bhichhaRke chaen
kahan hum paaenge...), Bawarchi (mDey's "Tum bin jivan kaisa jivan..."),
Parwana (Jis din se maine tumko dekha hai...), Hindustan ki Qasam (Hai
tere saath meri wafa, main nahin to kya...", and of course the famous
Heer Ranjha with Rafi Sahab's immortal "Ye duniya ye mehfil mere kaam ki
nahin..."

>Also, who wrote for Ek Mutthi Aasmaan? (The
>KK-Vani Jairam duet Pyaar kabhi kam na karnaa sanam etc).

Hmm, I didn't know this was a MM composition.... I don't know who the
lyricist was.


>> Madan Mohan was not easy to write for.  He was intolerant of sloppy work. I
>> urge you to do the following research.  You know what I mean when I talk
>> about
>> filler phrases in Hindi songs.  It is when the words don't fit the music
just
>> right, the singer does a bit of "Aa..." or "Oo..." and returns to home base.
>> Try to find a Madan Mohan song that has this feature.  You will have real
>> trouble.  He never had the need for fillers.  The words fitted just too
>> perfectly.
>
>The last sentence is quite inaccurate, to say the least. If I take your
>words literally, you are off the mark. I can cite several Madan Mohan
>examples where there are "fillers." To wit,


I tend to agree with Rajan here. Although quite a few MM's songs were
filler-free (a perfect example is "Teri aankhon ke siva duniya me rakha
kya hai....), he had to use fillers, just like any other MD.


>(c) Rafi's 'Tum jo mil gaye ho, to lagtaa hai, ke jahaaaaaaaa(filler
>de la creme!)aaaa mil gayaa..` from "Hanste Zakham."

In this song, the filler is most blatant in the line "EK naee zindagi
ka nisAAAAAAAn mil gaya" Actually, Kaifi ought to be blamed for this.
Nishan seems a bit out of phase with meherbaaN and kaarvaaN in the other
stanzas.

Also, the Haqueequat song "Zara si aahaT hoti hai to dil poochta hai...."
is also dotted with fillers.

[...passage dealing with intonation of swaras deleted due to lack of
  understanding :-)  ]


>Through the lens of musical scrutiny, however, differences in style
>come into view. MM had been heavily influenced by his association
>with Begum Akhtar and her music and hence had a strong foothold
>in the demesne of the ghazal.

Talking about MM's GHazals, I came across a beautiful one recently from the
movie Maa Ka Aanchal (another MM/Kaifi combo). And guess who the singer is ?
Asha Bhosale! The "Lata-phile" chose Asha for this particular GHazal and
what a job she's done with it! IMHO, Asha's voice was better suited for
GHazals than Lata's although most of MM's gems are in the latter's voice.

This GHazal (Jaane kya haal ho sheeshe ka, paimaane ka...) has a nice sher:

  Bewafaai ka gila sunke hansi aati hai
  DHoonDie aur bahana koi taRpaane ka !!


>He was singularly responsible
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>for tapping into the 'ras` that Lata's voice had to offer.
>A better example of synergy in Hindi film music is hard to find.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is something which has plagued me for a long time now. Why is the
Lata/MM combo singled out for praise ? I am not denying the fact that
it was indeed a great combo. Rajan has listed several reasons for the combo
being absolutely marvellous. But, why ONLY Lata/Madan ? Why not Lata/Naushad ?
Is it because Lata had a better personal relationship with the
former than the latter ? Perhaps that is also the reason for the Rafi/Naushad
combo being hailed. For me, perhaps due to the fact that Naushad is my fav.MD,
the Rafi/Naushad combo looks more justified than the Lata/Madan one.

Naushad has churned out countless gems with Lata, yet his contribution (to
Lata's career) is not recognized either by Lata or others. IMHO, the sweetness
and melody in Lata's voice is at it's best, when the MD is Naushad. It's as if
Naushad introduces a sugar cube into her vocal cords and utilizes a
time-dependant delivery system to extract the sweetness!
Just consider the sweetness in the following songs which cover a broad spectrum.

"Bekas pe karam kijie, Sarkar-e-Madina...." (a supplication fromM-e-Azam),
"Humaare dil se na jaana....." (an urge from URan KhaTola),
"Jogan ban jaaungi sainyaa tore kaaran...." (my all-time fav. Shabab!)

Even in highly demanding and difficult tunes such as "Jaanewaale se mulaquat
na hone paee..." (Amar), and "Phir teri kahaani yaad aaee...." (Dil Diya Dard
Liya), Lata's voice never loses it's sweetness.

And in the amazingly melodious "Tere pyaar me dildaar jo hai mera haal-e-zaar..
.." from Mere Mehboob, you can actually experience the "MeeTHa meeTHa dard" !

Despite all this, ONLY the Lata/Madan combo is recognized and HMV comes
out with cassettes of the said combo. My Q is why ONLY this combo ?


>Why don't they ever subscribe to the converse viewpoint? Which is that
>people such as OP Nayyar, Shankar-Jaikishan, Salil Chowdhary and such
>like were so damn smart that they were eclectic enough to understand
>foreign genres and adapt them at home. Particularly remarkable were
>S-J -

Your point regarding adopting the best from other cultures is well taken.
In addition to the MD's u mentioned, perhaps C.Ramachandra was also an
exponent of this art. However, at times Shanky-J were culpable of
blatant plagiarism. Some of their tunes were lifted directly from elsewhere
and foisted as their own.

>many composers in the world can make this boast? Verily, there isn't a
>composer in the land who has covered as much ground, surveyed as many
>genres AND consistently maintained a respectable QL/QN (quality/quantity)
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
           That's a very moot point. IMHO, the quality of Shanky-J's
compositions degenerated pretty fast. But then again, this is just my opinion.

>I wanted to talk about Naushad sahab too but will deny Sami that
>pleasure for now.

           :-) Too bad! This was the only flaw in an otherwise excellent post.


[...passage dealing with KK's singing abilities deleted for security
               reasons :-)   ....]

"Kehne ko bahut kuch tha agar kehne pe aate
Kuch aisi hi haalat hai ke hum kuch nahin kehte..."  :-)

Ending with a Lata/Madan combo.....what irony !!


Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan).....who again thanks Rajan for that nice post.

>Rajan Parrikar

*******************************************************************************
Line(s) for the day:

Itna dilkash hai ye roohoN ka safar
Paaon kaantoN par hai phooloN par nazar

(Kaifi Azmi in "Tumse bhichhaRke chaen kahan se paenge..."
*******************************************************************************